―What did you care about when you made the songs?

I was quite conscious about the feeling of being taken away. It’s like when you listen to this album, you're getting addicted to it little by little, or suddenly hits you and the aesthetic sense gradually affirmed and mixed together. Whether you like EDM or dancehall they will be merged together. I wanted to make myself to take a journey through the album, but the interpretation is up to the listener, so I tried not to have clear meanings in the lyrics. I used words that seem to be fine no matter what anyone thinks. So it's more like a tweet.

―Right, it’s not easy to understand what you're saying, but I feel comfortable listening to it.

I thought it would be nice if people would be like, "Oh, this is what it is" when something is connected and made sense. I didn’t do it randomly, but when the context fits and you can interpret my intention, you would feel more depth than a strong punchline. I was particular about creating a space with that kind of depth.

―By the way, what kind of group is NhotL (National Hotline), who produced this album?

To put it simply, it’s the creative team I made. We’ve been working together since we made my previous album “10000ft”, and there are about 3 guys as core members. Before working with me, they were just doing solo releases on their own and didn't produce or provide beats to other artists. So I asked them to work with me. In the future we wanna try new things and become a production group that doesn't just make beats.

―When you started making the album, did you set a goal of when you finish it by?

No, I didn’t but at first I thought I could finish it fast. In order to solidify my inspiration to some extent, I thought I'd make the beats first and then write the lyrics. Then we made beats for 6 to 7 songs, but we didn’t feel them at all. We were like, “We were big-headed, and losing momentum, no?”. I had a lot of ideas and made beats for about 60 songs. It was like intense training.

―Intense training?

We had an ideal vision, so we decided we should all work together towards the goal until the album was released. I spent the whole time working. I had been in that mind space for a long time and after about a year passed, my greed was out of control and I was like, "If I put this album out, the next feature will be Kanye" lol. However, one day it suddenly collapsed and after overcoming a journey of worldly desires, I became relaxed when the album was released.

―You realized.

I was like, “I don't need anything anymore”. I’ve got what I need and was at the next chapter so I didn’t expect people to talk about the album much. But since I was working on the album, there were people who sent me DMs and said, "I'm looking forward for your new album" and they gave me good feedback about it after it’s released. Besides that, there were people who gave me good reactions that I didn’t expect.

―For example?

Like Diggy from SOUL'd OUT. I've been listening to Diggy since I was little, and I think he pioneered new styles in Japanese hip hop. He asked me to do a song with him on his next work. That made me happier than getting a reaction from some of the bigger stars. I have impressions that my album has reached the people that I wanted to reach. I don't want this album to end with “just nice.” I’d rather it take a long time interacting with the world. Even like "What is this?" is fine, and I think it would be more fun if that "What is this?" gradually melts away.

―So tell us about your life story. I heard you grew up in Tosa City, Kochi Prefecture. What kind of environment did you grow up in?

I was born in Saitama, and lived in Tokyo with my mother and father until 4, but due to my parents' circumstances, I moved to Tosa where my mother is originally from. It’s a country side and there were no mixed kids at all so I was very alone and bullied in school. My grand parents and relatives were also hard on us so it was quite a hard time.

―What kind of person was your mother and how did she raise you?

My mother gave me lots of love. She’s very positive and sensitive but funny.  She raised her voice for things that were not legit.

―I heard that she loves music. When did you first listen to hip hop?

Ever since I can remember, I've been listening to M.O.P., Wu-Tang, Snoop, 50, and Nelly. As for Japanese rap, I listened to Def Tech when I was in 6th grade. My mom was the musical trend maker in my class. She always bought CDs at the local CD store and had many of them at home. So I secretly borrowed some and brought them to school, and had them played during lunchtime and they became popular. I was very proud lol.

―Such a cool mother! You moved to Tokyo after graduating from high school. How old were you when you decided to go to Tokyo?

Around the end of middle school. I had always felt so uncomfortable and thought I shouldn’t stay in an environment that doesn’t have opportunities. I wanted to go to the biggest place. I thought I could be anything if I really wanted to, so I decided to go to Tokyo.

―How was it when you arrived?

At first I lived in Ikebukuro, and about three days after I came I went to a club called BED, but I couldn't get in because I was 18. I saw a guy with afro and nervously went to talk to him. That was DJ Dekaichi and he showed me around Ikebukuro's underground. When he played an instrumental in his car and told me to try freestyle and I did it. He was like “You should be a rapper”.

―So you started going to MC battles then. What was your first battle you participated in?

It was the original version of High School rap battle. When I first came out, I made it to the top 8 and I got cocky. Now that I think about it, the reason I won was because of my presence and the volume of my voice lol.

―Lol. After that, did you participate in the Sengoku Battle?

Yes. I think the first one was done at R Lounge. They were like, "If you want to get on the battle, catch this ball" and I caught it. I didn’t know then but later on they told me they thought, “In the venue packed with Japanese people, a nearly 6'3" black guy got the ball, he should be the real deal”. But I spit in fluent Japanese lol. It was a relaxed atmosphere but funny to them. I was asked to come again and after that I entered 2 or 3 times, and gradually made friends there. After I went on about 6 times, I started to appear in the Freestyle Dangeon too.

―When was that you start making music?

I'd been doing it before I started going to those MC battles. I thought I had a lot of creativity, so I was thinking that I'd widen my recognition by participating in the battles, I can promote my music which I really love to do.

―I feel the sound of your songs is completely different from when you're in MC battle. Did people tell you so?

Yes, a lot. It's like too dissociated and I’m a completely different person. But I would be happy if people think of the music side of me as real me. MC battles are an extension of talking and it’s like a workout to me. I don't hate it, but I enjoy it more when I'm making music.

―It's been about 10 years since you started your rap career. What was the turning point or event that you think changed your life?

I could mentally realize a change when I started getting paid a little more money than a regular salary-man. There was a time when an amount of money came in for the EP I released. At that time, I was still doing a part-time job, and one day I finished my work early and I was doing a  ego search about my own EP. At the same time I checked my bank account and I was like, “What? I can manage it".

―Do you often do ego search about yourself?

I check rankings, how much attention I'm getting, and who name-dropped me. But I realize looking at things like that, I get really sick of myself lol.

―When did you feel the happiest about your career so far?

When someone celebrated something about me or helped me with what I was doing, or when my live show went well or people gave me lots of love in a place I didn’t know of. There were many happy things happened, but I felt the happiest recently. There was a guy I wanted to crush who had always stayed behind and bothered me, but finally he got on my side. When I feel satisfied is usually in my mind. I don’t really have certain episodes, but in a random moment, I feel like, "Oh yeah, this is life," and I realize it always doesn’t have to be someone or some certain events that make me happy.

―That's deep.

I thought I was the kind of person who shouldn't have been in a place where I couldn't notice those feelings. That's why it's good for me to be in a place that is not in the middle of the city. In the end, there is no good or bad, no superiority. But the thing is if I think about things like this a lot, I can’t do my best in the MC battles. The Last battle I participated in, even though the prize was 10 million dollars, I didn't get motivated at all. I think in a way this is an ED lol, but it's interesting because something new happens after that. I am grateful to the people around me for letting me do what I want.

―Have you ever felt frustrated?

In the past, there were more physical negatives. Over the past two years, people’s awareness of me has increased and I've been approached and praised from various people, but I couldn’t accept them at all. I was like, "I don’t like myself so even if you like me, I don’t." You can call it depression, but I absolutely couldn’t take that praise.

―I see.

After the pandemic, I couldn't interact closely with the world, so I couldn't write songs and I got lost. The songs I made were supposed to be great, but they sounded dull like basic algorithms and drum patterns. I became a boring person. Sometimes I thought, "Is it ok for me to be a rapper?" That period was quite tough.

―How did you solve it?

I was caught in a dilemma of emotions, but after I went through that over and over I settled on the "I’m great" mode. When I was lost, I came across this manga called "Kichi!!" by Hideki Arai. There is a scene where the main character says, "It's great to be alone. It’s important to be alone. Everyone is alone. It's fun to live, because I'm alone” and that touched my heart. Now everyone is trying to escape from being alone somehow, but I realized that being alone is not a bad thing and the importance of it.

―How do you feel the hip hop scene has changed since you started rapping 10 years ago?

The growth of culture has been effected by the development of the Internet, and the sense of collusion between entertainment and the Internet. That makes me happy but sad and feel it's similar to when the band you like was unpopular first but then they become popular. That's why the culture has lost its luster, and I think it's a shame that more people don't listen to music deeply. Besides that, I feel the energy of the artists is responsible partially, but I think it would be better if the media or the people who set up projects or shows do with more thought.

―Indeed.

I think that their proposals and policies are too conservative and that lowers the possibilities. Artists have to protect their territories, which inevitably makes them tense, and those barriers arise in various places, but the media can do anything, and there's no point in continuing to produce the same kind of pop stars. If the culture is going to go public and go bankrupt, it should be more and more deeply rooted. If there is a general framework to organize that, I think that the degree of freedom as a culture will expand further.

―If you could describe your musical style in one word, what would it be?

"Tsuppari". It doesn't mean that I want to be bad, but it's necessary to have the charm of being stubborn, or conversely, aggressiveness which is necessary in life's predicament and also at the top as well. The answer should not be entrusted to others, in the end you have to decide for yourself. For me it's not about where we go, it's about where I want to go.

―What is your own favorite lyric?

In my song "UP" I say, "You see me through 6 and some inches, but if you press the switch, the main character of life will be reflected".  That means "You're looking at me through the screen of your smartphone, but if you press the power button to black out the screen, you'll be the main character in your life". I don't think many people think of smartphone from the word "6 and a few inches”, but by any chance, when they know the size of the smartphone and find out the meaning of it, the gimmick of my lyric will click.

―It would be interesting to hear the meaning of all of your songs.

I tend to make difficult lyrics. It's very important to have people enjoy it in a gimmicky way, but it's also a warning to myself that there are times in life when it's easier to say "I love you" if you honestly love someone lol.

―What kind of person do you think you are?

"B-class dramatic bastard". Despite my admiration for A-class, I’m the type of guy who can't let go of B-class. I have a deep respect and affection for subcultures and at the same time I want to be a B-class that is not inferior to an A-class for being dramatic. I don't want to walk the red carpet, but as long as I'm doing music for the rest of my life, I want people to be amused by it. I'm the type who wants to laugh and cry at the same time, I want to be deeply moved. I hide that part, but I think it's not cool if I don’t have a weak point that comes out. After all, I wanna stay fresh and glossy lol.

―Do you feel a gap between how you feel about yourself and what others think about you?

Yes. In the past I used to be quite closed-minded and approached everything with a rigid way of thinking. But one day a close friend told me that people would love me if I showed some of my weak side. I didn't understand it then, but now I do. It seems like everyone doesn't have six pack abs lol, and it's okay to have different styles. Now I sometimes show my friends my sensitive side and I get a lot of acceptance for my clumsy self, so I feel like I’ve been surrounded with lots of love.

―What do you think is the strength that makes you stand out from others?

I look at people. So I know what kind of person they are by just talking to them. Sometimes by just hearing "Hello" on a phone call. I’m sensitive to people's emotions. Also I talk a lot lol.

―Is there anyone you admire and look up to?

I respect people who work as a professional in their field. But I try not to pay false respect.

―Tell us the funniest thing that has happened to you or around you recently.

I have a friend who's often late to work and doesn't do his job properly, basically socially unfit. I gave him a Nintendo Switch for his birthday and he got so addicted to it that he kept it in his chest pocket even he was working at his job. One day, while the other employees were working overtime, he tried to leave at 5 with like a "I'm different" attitude. When he got up, the Switch fell out of his pocket and the co-workers seemed to freeze. He proudly told me that it was like the scene in the movie "Joker" in which Arthur dropped his gun he had hidden in his chest at the nursery school where he worked. I laughed so hard when I heard that.

―Are there any artists or songs you like these days?

In Japan, I like TOKYO TRILL. They’re my friends, but their album was cool. It was charming and cute and I could feel their love for music. Overseas, I think Omega Sapien from the Korean alternative group Balming Tiger. They have a neo-ish or tribe feel, a bit like drum'n bass. They have authentic Asian style.

―Are there any artists or producers you would like work with in the future?

There is no one in particular. For me being a featured artist is unknown territory, but there are possibilities depending on the session or genre. Every artists changes depending on the producer and the song, so I would like to try anything if the process can produce unknown possibilities. I want to work on sonics too, so I'm looking forward to a session with the beat makers. We've created our own style that includes "B1", so it's like a session with that.